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Meet Mikko

Mikko, I've inserted comments into the body of your e-mail using brackets [].

 

"Jordan"

http://www.theism.net/authors/zjordan

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Mikko Tanni [mt63532_DELETEtHIS(at)uta.fi]

Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 7:22 AM

To: Jordan

Subject: Humanists

 

Hello,

 

Thank you for the interesting web site of yours; there are a lot of [conversion] testimonies on the Net, but I find only a few of them really interesting, however yours make an exception. This is not to say that the experiences are not valuable, they certainly are but often they are not very useful in apologetic debates.

 

[I understand. I praise God for tailoring me as He did.]

 

Anyways, I'd like to bother you with several questions, concerning mostly social issues, but because I am not sure if you're interested, I thought I'd better ask permission first.

 

[I am interested and appreciate your considerate approach.]

 

For example, at the moment I am interested in how secular humanists, from your experience, feel about TV-/movie violence? Do they deny the connection between TV and violent behavior?

 

[From my experience, yes, they deny it. To them, it is merely reality; Christians (often according to many Humanists) just cannot deal with reality. The Bible warns us that man will turn from God and pursue earthly drives and pleasures. We are, indeed, "Oddballs" by the world's standards. Nonetheless, we as Christians are no longer of the world. Humankind's shift toward humanism, to me, is merely a sign of the biblical end times.

 

I highly recommend (if you have access to it) a book I referenced in my testimony by author Tim LaHaye titled Battle for the Mind. There are many such writings but I find it the most succinct in its delivery of thoughts on such subject matter. As an atheist, the writing served as a turning point in my thinking, which ultimately led to my openness in revisiting Christ's resurrection. I am guessing by your e-mail address that you are foreign. If so, acquiring an out-of-print U.S. book could prove a challenge. If so, I am willing to send you at my expense my personal copy. Also, I am blind-copying a few friends who might have a Web link that may serve you just as well. I also cc-d J.P.Holding who has a fulltime ministry.]

 

If you wonder why I'd ask something like that it's because I am a student of social sciences; communication sciences and audiovisual media culture are one of my subjects. However, the question is not related to my studies. :-)

 

[Nonetheless, it is a GOOD question either way!]

 

Yours,

 

[Yours, as well. I remain at your service if I can be of further assistance or have failed at satisfying your inquiry. By the way, may I include this correspondence in my new E-Mail Mail Bag page (http://www.theism.net/authors/zjordan/emailbag_files/emailbag.htm)?]

 

In Him,

 

"Jordan"

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Mikko Tanni [mt63532_DELETEtHIS(at)uta.fi]

Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 8:38 AM

To: G. Zeineldé Jordan

Subject: RE: Humanists

 

 

Hello there, and thank you for the answer.

 

For example, at the moment I am interested in how secular humanists, from your experience, feel about TV-/movie violence? Do they deny the connection between TV and violent behavior?

 

[From my experience, yes, they deny it. To them, it is merely reality; Christians (often according to many Humanists) just cannot deal with reality. The Bible warns us that man will turn from God and pursue earthly ...]

 

This doesn't surprise me at all, least because I have come to that conclusion, too, but because humanists HAVE to deny the media influence. Humanist prefer so see subjects/individuals as a _source_ of the meanings that shape them, where as postmodernists see subjects/individuals as an _effect_ of the meanings they have been imposed to. That is, an individual doesn't have sense of morals because he is a "moral being", but rather because he/she has been "programmed" to think he/she is such.

 

Obviously, direct effects are unusual, but it is a straw man to claim that media doesn't have _any_ influence on its audiences, just because the effects are not direct. The reason, why we don't see (more) people killing each other once watching an action movie, is because they might not have a good reason for it; but if they did, let's say in a conflict situation, the subconscious effects might trigger violence.

 

So, having no direct influence doesn't mean that the movie didn't have any influence; in fact, there's body of evidence and arguments for psychological (subconscious) and cognitive (changes in knowledge) effects. There is also influence in a semiotic sense, as a change in our system of signs (representations of the world). I find the latter the most interesting, as it makes many of the anti-Christian attitudes possible.

 

>...drives and pleasures. We are, indeed, "Oddballs" by the world's standards. Nonetheless, we as Christians are no longer of the world. Humankind's shift toward humanism, to me, is merely a sign of the biblical end times.

 

A first sign, maybe. IMHO humanism is no longer a real philosophy, but rather a weak practice; in many ways it is just a form of atheist apology, a way of keeping people out of theism.

 

>I highly recommend (if you have access to it) a book I referenced in my testimony by author Tim LaHaye titled Battle for the Mind. There are many such writings but I find it the most succinct in its delivery of thoughts on such subject matter. As an atheist, the writing served as a turning point in...

 

It sounds interesting, although I don't doubt at all that a battle exists. In fact, from reading academic literature, it's obvious that a (post) modern society is incredibly political. I read Orwell's "1984" as a freshman in the university, and that was a huge turning point for me; I think that it, some way or other, started my dissent from humanism (although it might have started before).

 

>...my thinking which ultimately led to my openness in revisiting Christ's resurrection. I am guessing by your e-mail address that you are foreign. If...

 

Shouldn't it have been obvious from my English? ;-) Yes, I am a Finn.

 

>...so, acquiring an out-of-print U.S. book could prove a challenge. If so, I am willing to send you at my expense my personal copy. Also, I am blind-copying...

 

I appreciate it, and obviously I am interested in the book, but there might be others who actually need it more. :-)

 

>...a few friends who might have a Web link that may serve you just as well. I also copied J.P.Holding who has a fulltime ministry.

 

I know J.P.H. quite well. I've been in contact with him for some two years.

 

>[Yours, as well. I remain at your service if I can be of further assistance or have failed at satisfying your inquiry. By the way, may I include this correspondence in my new E-Mail Mail Bag page (http://www.theism.net/authors/zjordan/emailbag_files/emailbag.htm)?]

 

Yes you may, but I'd like to see my email-address hidden from the Spam-robots; like this: "mt63532_DELETEtHIS(at)uta.fi". A human reader is able to figure out the real address fairly easy.

 

Now, I'd have an additional question of the title:

 

Apparently, a favorite topic among the freethinkers, in those organizations where you belonged to, was debating about the evils of Christianity and theism; is that correct? Nevertheless, did you ever hear anyone talking about the postmodern threat (to humanism) - I'd except that most of the freethinkers you knew, called themselves humanists? Would any of them recognize names like Althusser, Foucault or Derrida? What I am after is: do humanists recognize the contradiction between their ideology and the contemporary philosophy? For instance, humanists, even today, call man a measure of everything, while Foucault proclaimed:

 

"As the archaeology of our thought easily shows, man is an invention of recent date, and one perhaps nearing its end. If those arrangements were to disappear as they appeared ... then one can certainly wager that man would be erased, like a face drawn in sand at the edge of the sea."

 

Anyways, that's it for this time, thank you for the answer (once more). (Just let me know, if I am asking questions you don't find interesting.)

 

Yours,

 

Mikko Tanni: http://www.uta.fi/~mt63532/

 If necessary, remove "_RemoveMe" and ".invalid" to reply.

 "Only Amigans could argue about the AmigaTwo before anybody has

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