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----- Original Message -----
From: G. Zeinelde Jordan <
e-mail: jordanDELETETHIS(AT)theism.net
To: Locks, Steve <slocks@globalnet.co.uk>
Sent: 29 January
2000 01:22
Subject: Response to Your Inquiry
Mr. Locks:
I apologize for the delay. I meant to respond sooner but family concerns
interfered.
You are welcome to e-mail me anytime. You may share my e-mail address
with anyone you choose. However, I appreciate your research efforts
enough to share with you additional contact information. Do not hesitate
to contact me by other means. This is for your information only:
<snip address>
Steve Locks wrote to Jordan:
>
> Hello,
>
> I am doing some research for my website "Leaving Christianity"
at
> http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~slocks/decon.html
>
> The site is basically a resource of "testimonies" from people
who have
> left Christianity telling why they left in their own words. Mostly it
links to
> sites already containing some collections of these stories. In the
> process of my research I have been struck by an asymmetry between the
large number
> of professional Christians who deconvert
(ministers, apologists,
> missionaries etc.) verses the lack of their atheist counterparts, such
as members of
> humanist or atheist organisations, who convert
to Christianity. However,
>to date I have mostly just anecdotal information on this although I have
now
> asked a number of atheist etc. organisations,
and some Christians and
> Christian sites, for examples of converts to Christianity who have a
> background of having been in an organisation
that is critical of
> Christianity.
>
> I heard of your case via a member of the Errancy
list. The information I
> got is that you had been in various atheist organisations
for a number of
> years, but recently converted to Christianity due to pondering the
biblical
> resurrection accounts. To date you are the only person I know of who has
> such a background.
I am eager to know if the former clergy who dissented were reared in a
Christian background, or if they made informed adult decisions to enter
clergy. It seems to me that a presupposition favoring any theistic or
non-theistic position (e.g., Johnny became a Christian because Mommy,
school, and general consensus taught him Christianity's veracity,
whereas Toby became an atheist because Mommy, school, and general
consensus taught him atheism's veracity) would not endure attacks very
well. Most children raised in the West are taught that Christianity, not
atheism, is true. Therefore, dissent from Christianity is more probable
than dissent from atheism by virtue of the sheer number of its original
adherents. The intensity of the teaching also bears on the outcome.
D. James Kennedy, whose politics I do not particularly care for but who
preaches Christianity well, made a point referencing two post-World War
II Japanese groups residing in Brazil. One group accepted the evidence
via newspaper, radio, etc., that Japan
lost the war and surrendered to
allied forces. The other group, however, presupposed the Emperor's
divinity and could not conceive of Japan's
defeat. They rejected the
evidence. The groups remained hostile to each other over that
presupposition. Another case in point: one scientist (details are in one
of the attachments) presented that he had to accept the highly
improbable odds of mass hallucination because, if he did not, he would
have to accept the resurrection as factual. Again, to accommodate his
presupposition that a resurrection is impossible, he rejects the
evidence. He invented a twin-of-Jesus hypothesis, in which an unknown
twin posed as Jesus after stealing Jesus' body from the tomb. It gets
worse. You should hear that debate for yourself. This man actually holds
a Ph.D.
My high-school-teacher friend named atheist front-runners throughout
history who converted to Christ, such as Will Durante.
He claims Sartre
converted but it is not well advertised because colleges and
universities use his atheistic writings. He claims Sartre experienced
nothing even close to "deathbed conversion." Those are two names
you can
research. Personally, I am not concerned about who converts to what; I
am only concerned with their reasoning.
>
> I am particularly interested in the conversion and deconversion
of
> informed people from both the theist and non-theist camps who are well
aware of
> the arguments from their particular side, rather than the lesser
educated
> public. i.e. the conversion and deconversion of trained theist and non-theist
> "apologists", as it were, for and against Christianity.
A friend informed me that an article in the Atlanta
Journal/Constitution
listed names of current-day atheist scientists who converted to Christ.
I e-mailed the AJC regarding it and await the response. I will inform
you of the results.
>
> That is why I have chosen to seek those, like yourself, who were
> previously members of an atheist/freethought/humanist
organisation who then became
> Christians. I'm not interested in those who have not studied the
> arguments against Christianity very well before they became Christians,
so I'm
> using membership of an organisation as an
indicator that they were probably
> quite well read.
>I really want to know if studying material critical of
> Christianity prevents people becoming Christians in the first place,
> whereas Christian ministers and theologians do change their beliefs (the
"Sea of
> Faith" organization http://www.sofn.org.uk/
for example).
> So if you would like to tell me, then I would be very interested in your
> background, what you have read on both sides of the argument,
Paine's "Age of Reason," O'Hair's
"Questions and Answers," and
"Ingersoll the Magnificent" spring to
mind. Over the years I read and
re-read "Freethought Today" and
"American Atheist: A Journal of Atheist
News and Thought." My American Atheist magazine collection ranges from
December 1988 through Fall 1993. I dropped my membership after only a
year (due to a dislike I formed for O'Hair) but
continued receiving the
magazine. I particularly enjoyed American Atheists's
highlighting the
works of atheist historians and scientists, for I did not have time to
read such works in their entirety. My "Freethought
Today" collection
ranges from August 1990 through February 1995. Incidentally, I remain
fond of Professor Hakeem's columns in Freethought Today. I remained a
member of the Freedom from Religion Foundation much longer than of
American Atheists. I later joined the Atlanta Freethought
Society. Its
monthly newsletter, "Atlanta Freethought
News," contains little
disputing God's existence or Christ's reality; it primarily bashes
Christianity and touts the virtues of non-belief. Further, I reviewed
atheist Michael Martin's chapter, "The Case Against the
Resurrection,"
from his book "The Case Against Christianity." I have read other
publications as loaners but would have to struggle to remember the
specifics. I plan to very soon write a rebuttal to Martin.
On the Christian side, please see the references in one of my attached
articles, "Birth and Death of an Atheist." While an atheist, I read
Josh
McDowell's "Evidence that Demands a Verdict." McDowell's reliance
on
scripture, the authority of which he failed to establish, did nothing to
weaken my atheism. I still do not recommend it. In contrast, I recommend
the references from my article as well as transcripts and taped debates
between William Lane Craig and "top-gun" atheists. Craig holds a
Ph.D.
in philosophy and a Ph.D. in religion. You can review his materials and
bio at:
http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcraig/
I downloaded the Carr debates I found after visiting the sites you
referenced. I hope to read them this weekend. Additionally, though I am
formally a member of a Baptist congregation, I primarily attend an
inter-denominational church that offers courses in apologetics. I
attended William Lane Craig's "Reasons For Faith" and
"Critical
Thinking" classes there. My reference material consists of
"Handbook of
Christian Apologetics" (Kreeft and Tacelli), "Hard Sayings of the Old
Testament" (Kaiser), "More Hard Sayings of the Old Testament"
(Kaiser),
"Hard Sayings of Jesus" (Bruce), "Hard Sayings of Paul" (Brauch), and
"More Hard Sayings of the New Testament" (Davids).
My fear of Christianity's effect on American government proved the
catalyst for my atheist activism. I feared Christianity's taking over
American culture and indoctrinating youth via, for example,
government-run schools. Eventually, I determined I had inadvertently
supported non-theistic religious tyranny, a tyranny not unlike the
American Christian Right tyranny I still oppose. Despite my atheism, I
opposed the Secular Humanists' drive to dominate American society. I
categorically oppose all religious tyranny, theistic or not.
Then, as now, I harbored little interest in scientific debates. The
pivotal question remains whether Christ died and rose again. Having
determined He did, I began studying apologetics. I expect to continue my
apologetics studies at a Bible college.
> any material you may have previously published
(even if only online) critical of
> Christianity
I developed my desire to write when I began my dissent from atheist
organizations. As Truth unfolded, I felt compelled to share Him with
others. Attached is my first article, "My Appeal to the AFS."
Though I
wrote it to a targeted audience, I think you will get the point. Shortly
after I wrote that article, I began a monograph about a Christian whose
politics I admired and supported despite my atheism. After two years of
composition, I expect to produce a first edition next week. I will
forward you a copy as soon as I complete the manuscript. Also attached
is my personal testimony, "Birth and Death of an Atheist," which I
wrote
at the request of a youth minister. Atheist author, publisher, and
editor, Temy Beal, learned of my conversion and
printed "Birth and
Death" in his freethought publication SOAR. He
posted my work and his
rebuttal at his Website:
http://members.tripod.com/~AtheistEvangelist666/debate1.html
I then addressed his rebuttal point-by-point. (I experienced some font
problems with his site, so for your convenience I have attached
transcripts from that exchange.) Temy is currently
preparing his next
response to my argument, and he is compiling conversion stories from
both sides. I copied him your original e-mail message. Should you wish
to use any of Temy's material, please contact him.
> and, if you wish, what it was about the
resurrection that
> convinced you to become a Christian.
Many points convinced me of Christ's reality. The more I learned about
the resurrection, in particular, the more solid my faith grew. While an
atheist, I rejected that Jesus even existed (a minority view in my
atheistic circles). However, the growing number of atheist scholars who
accept that Jesus existed, faced crucifixion, and disappeared from the
tomb captured my attention. The vast majority of Christian and atheist
scholars concur on those points. Had atheistic scholars managed to
refute any of those points, I could have remained skeptical of the
resurrection. If you know of a current atheist scholar who presents a
compelling case against Jesus' existence, crucifixion, and
disappearance
from the tomb, please inform me. J. P. Holding, at:
http://www.integrityonline15.com/jpholding/tekton/text.html
addressed such an argument. Current scholars of both camps argue about
HOW the tomb became empty. When I reassessed the empty tomb, I found
that secular explanations raise more questions than they answer.
I intentionally withheld some of my reasoning about the resurrection
from my point-by-point response to Temy, because I
did not want this
issue clouded by pages of irrelevant points. The pivotal question
remains, "What happened to the body?"
> I am not seeking a debate and will
> not harangue you with arguments (put me in your killfile
if I do!),
>rather I have to ask people on both sides of the question if I am to do
honest
> research.
I admire your intellectual and academic integrity.
> Also if you are aware of a quality Christian NG, mailing list or website
> that might be interested in this question without filling my mailbox
with
> preaching then I would be very grateful!
In addition to those referenced above are:
http://www.reasons.org/ (heavily
scientific)
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/
I respect your approach to this research. If I can be of any further
help, let me know. I am eager to learn your views on these points. I
will share mine with you regarding the Carr debates.
Sincerely,
Jordan
P.S. The files are numbered in the order to be read. Bear in mind that I
wrote "Birth and Death" for a Christian youth group. Therefore, I
should
rewrite it anticipating skeptics' arguments before posting it at your
site. Please advise me whether you receive the attachments with or
without difficulty.
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